Saints GM calls Brees 'very good' but not 'great' QB? WTF!?!

Discussion in 'NFL Football Discussion' started by Lawdog, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Lawdog

    Lawdog Administrator Staff Member

  2. KMoney

    KMoney Administrator Staff Member

  3. brothers11

    brothers11 SRMer

    This really should be the easiest negotiation. I am amazed this guy has said anything more than "Thanks Drew for resurrecting our franchise, setting records, and winning a super bowl for us...sooooo, how much ya want?"
    • Like Like x 2
  4. MookStunna

    MookStunna SRMer

    Are you kidding me?

    How about we hand you Aaron Brooks again and you go play with THAT?

    As much as it won't happen, I hope Brees leaves now.
  5. cmnelson1987

    cmnelson1987 SRMer

    Unfortunately, there isn't another team that is nearly as good of a fit for Brees as New Orleans is, so that gives the Saints a bit of leverage. He gets 8 home games in that dome, another road dome game in Atlanta, and a game in warm weather Tampa. Plus, it's rare that a team doesn't get at least 1 non-divisional game against a dome or warm weather team. That's big for Brees. Then you add in the roster around him, having a big TE target, and a great receiving RB he can check down to, plus a handful of talented wide outs.

    Hopefully they get their heads out of their asses and realize what he has done for not just that organization, but that entire city, and pay him what he's worth.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. dolfan2004

    dolfan2004 SRMer

    Think about this, though... New Orleans is currently $9 million under a reduced salary cap, they have other significant free agents, including 2 pro-bowlers (Colston and Nicks)... Brees is asking for a contract that will pay him $23 million each of the first 3 years... that is nearly 1/5th of their money going to 1 player... it is tough to maintain a team doing things like this.
  7. J-Pass

    J-Pass The Producer

    Trade him to the Eagles for DeSean Jackson!

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    • Like Like x 1
  8. Ronin

    Ronin Sexual Tyrannosaurus Staff Member

    Dude must be a Republican.

    They don't believe in facts either.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. cmnelson1987

    cmnelson1987 SRMer

    That's the same thing that was done with Brady and Manning, they got front-loaded contracts (according to ESPN). Managing your cap is 1/2 of being a good GM. You can't resign everyone, so you have let some guys walk so you can afford to keep the guys you really need. In today's NFL, you need an elite QB to be a consistent contender. In all honesty, if he screws up this situation and loses Brees (either this year or next year if they franchise him this year), he should lose his job.
  10. gco211

    gco211 Moderator

    Exactly, give him a "eight year deal" that really has about three real years wort of money (taking him through the age of 36), and then rethink things then. At this stage, with all the other contracts out there of QBs in his range and of his age, getting together on a contract should be easy.
  11. dolfan2004

    dolfan2004 SRMer

    I fully agree, and they will work this out, but beyond the fame and glory, this is a business... if Drew Brees walks in and says "make me the highest paid QB, give me $23 million in each of the first 3 seasons" you don't go "SOUNDS GOOD!!!!!! here is your check", you negotiate, and that is what they are doing, I am not saying Brees should cave, I am saying as a GM, he has to try to get the best deal possible for the team, so that they can afford to keep some of those other key pieces... Colston is as good as gone, but if they give $23 million to Brees, they can kiss Carl Nicks good bye also... he is not doing his job very well if he just bows to Brees and lessens the rest of the roster in the process. worst case scenario, is that he is franchised and they put it off until next year.
  12. gco211

    gco211 Moderator

    I agree about negotiations, but it's way too early in negotiations to speak in public like this. In a month, fine, but right now this is only going to piss off Brees and make him feel unappreciated.
  13. dolfan2004

    dolfan2004 SRMer

    I agree, he shouldn't have said what he did regarding Brees, and I do not think he should say it at any point, really... but I am mostly commenting on the fact that this should be an easy negotiation and contract to get done... we're talking 1/6 of the money they are allowed to use to put together a 53 man roster... IMO, that is the toughest negotiation and contract to hand out, I don't care how important the player is to your team.
  14. cmnelson1987

    cmnelson1987 SRMer

    But, it shouldn't come to this. You have to have an eye towards the future. When you are bringing in Shaun Rogers, Vilma, Greer and so on, you have to have a long term vision. Obviously he didn't, because now he is trying to find a way to afford to bring back Brees without eliminating all of their cap space.

    And most importantly, you don't come out and call your clearly great QB 'very good, but not great.' Assuming they resign him, is he going to stand behind his 'not great' comment?

    He really needs to fix this situation, and do it in a hurry. Not only did he do a poor job managing his salary cap, he's now insulting a very key part of the revival of this franchise.
  15. cmnelson1987

    cmnelson1987 SRMer

    I agree that it's not easy, but it has to be part of the long term vision. You have to know when your QB is going to need a new contract, and make sure you are going to have cap space to bring him back.
  16. dolfan2004

    dolfan2004 SRMer

    Even if you have the cap space, I don't think you should just go all Bill Polian/Jim Irsay on it and say "we are going to make him the highest paid QB in the league" (which, I believe at $18 million, after Manning is either cut or restructures he will be anyway)... IMO, this approach is alot smarter, and Brees' price will come down, because if he is tagged he will get $14 million for 1 year, and more so than most QBs, he knows the future isn't guaranteed... he can't walk out of New Orleans, and he will want a long term deal, more than he wants $69 million over the first 3 years of that deal, because there is a chance he will end up in a situation like he was in 2006, where he was courted by only 2 teams, and given, essentially a 1 year deal with a very long club option... only this time, time is not on his side to get a mega-deal down the road... IMO, at some point, Brees will sign a long term deal that pays him between $19 and $20 million in each of the first 3 years, and they will be all hugs and hand shakes after that.
  17. gco211

    gco211 Moderator

    The thing is, it's really not 1/6 of the cap when you get down to it. You figure at worst they're tagging him, so around $16 million is effectively a sunk cost (and that's all in the current year, not spread out). You're really haggling over about $5 million. It's not something that is going to stop the sides from getting together, but with the precedent from other teams, this deal needs to get done so they figure out the rest of the situation. Get creative to maximize cap space, as they are also apparently doing with Will Smith and others. They can make moves, but the Brees deal needs to get done so they know what they need to do on those other moves.
  18. Lawdog

    Lawdog Administrator Staff Member

    The funny thing is that Loomis must know who he said 'very good but not great QB' to, so you have to think that is going to be an issue down the road.

    This whatever percentage of the cap business is balderdash IMHO. I mean seriously, how many teams would love Brady, Manning (healthy) or Brees at the helm? It is not like they were cheap to maintain before and now it has to cost compare roughly the same percentage as it did only years ago, right? I mean it is not like QB salaries went from .05 percent to 15-20 percent overnight?

    The bottom like is outside of Dilfer in the modern salary cap era I cannot think of another SB winner whose QB is not well worth whatever they are being paid... the QB largely is responsible for them being there in the first place, even if the biff their performance in the big dance, like Ben has done twice.
  19. cmnelson1987

    cmnelson1987 SRMer

    I'm not saying just hand him the money, but it shouldn't have gotten to this point. It shouldn't be at the point where you are only a few days away from either having to tag him or let him become a FA. Yes, we all assume he will eventually sign with the Saints, but that isn't a risk a GM should be taking. It isn't like they just found out he was going to be a free agent, they've had a long time to get this done.

    It would be different if we were talking about Eli Manning (pre 2011 season) was asking to be the clear-cut highest paid QB. But, we are talking about Drew Brees asking to be paid the same as the other QBs of his caliber were paid.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Lawdog

    Lawdog Administrator Staff Member

    Look at the stats for Brees over the last 6 years and it is hard to argue he is not one of the best, if not THE best, of the starting QBs in the league [SORRY GRAPHIC FUBAR]:

    2006
    356​
    554​
    64.3​
    4,418​
    7.98​
    26​
    86​
    11​
    5​
    96.2​
    2007
    16​
    440​
    652​
    67.5​
    4,423​
    6.78​
    28​
    58​
    18​
    8​
    89.4​
    2008
    16​
    413​
    635​
    65.0​
    5,069​
    7.98​
    34​
    84​
    17​
    1​
    96.2​
    2009
    15​
    363​
    514​
    70.6​
    4,388​
    8.54​
    34​
    75​
    11​
    9​
    109.6​
    2010
    16​
    448​
    658​
    68.1​
    4,620​
    7.02​
    33​
    80​
    22​
    9​
    90.9​
    2011
    16​
    468​
    657​
    71.2​
    5,476​
    8.34​
    46​
    79​
    14​
    0​
    110.6​
    Career
    154​
    3613​
    5,479​
    65.9​
    40,742​
    7.44​
    281​
    86​
    146​
    52​
    94.0​




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    • Like Like x 1
  21. Ronin

    Ronin Sexual Tyrannosaurus Staff Member

    32 teams.
    5 Must keep QB's

    Brady,P.Manning*, Brees, Rodgers, E.Manning,

    27 Teams would give up the guy they have now in a blink to get anyone of them.

    Brees good but not great?

    That's like saying Kate Upton is sort of good looking.

    * when 100%
  22. cmnelson1987

    cmnelson1987 SRMer

  23. dolfan2004

    dolfan2004 SRMer

    I think this puts the pressure on Brees to lower his asking price, and fall more in line with the Saints offer, he doesn't want to put off a long term deal, and risk injury before cashing in, and with him losing his best O-lineman to boot, IMO, they will reach a long term agreement before the draft... somewhere between $19 and 20 million as I said earlier... Brees had to try to get it done before today, moreso than the Saints did, because he lost leverage when the tag came in, now, he has zero chance of them meeting him near that $23 million.
  24. cmnelson1987

    cmnelson1987 SRMer

    I don't think it really changes anything. The Saints live and die by Drew Brees, on the field and in the locker room. Brees could say that he's walking next year without the deal he wants, and he would have a ton of support in the locker room. Considering the other things surrounding that organization right now (especially if they start losing draft picks as punishment), they have even less margin for error with this situation.
  25. dolfan2004

    dolfan2004 SRMer

    He could say what ever he wants, and he will have the backing of the locker room... but, what matters, is he doesn't want to risk not getting a long term deal, he could say "I'm walking after this year" but he, they and us, know he doesn't want to restart with another team, and certainly doesn't want a repeat of 2006... more than anything, he wants long term security in New Orleans, and I guarantee you, he is going to lower his asking price and get it done.
  26. Bpow0407

    Bpow0407 SRMer

    If Eli is on that list, Ben is too.

    And Peyton shouldn't be on the list until he can prove he's even medically cleared to play.
  27. Bpow0407

    Bpow0407 SRMer

    If you think he's going to be around for 3 years, give him a 5 year deal.

    5M base first year salary, 15M signing bonus in the first year, 20M roster bonus in the 2nd year + 5 base.... all guaranteed.

    He makes 45 in 2 years, but the first year cap hit is 8M, and when the 20M roster bonus is turned into a signing bonus and prorated over 4 years then the 2nd year cap hit is only 13 million... and then the cap blows up in 2014 w/ the new TV money and the cap hit won't matter as much then.
  28. Ssg

    Ssg SRMer

    Not likely. While Ben has made three Super Bowls he was nothing short of putrid in two of them. The guy gave away one of them and should have gave another away had it not been for some of the worst officiating in super bowl history. Eli is the better QB and he doesn't come with some if the worst character flaws in them league. I think if the Steelers could swap Ben for one of the names the other poster mentioned they would do it without hesitation. Elite QBs dont turn the ball over in the playoffs like Ben is extreamly prone to do. The guy has one less playoff TO then passing TD.

    Manning has been the best QB in the NFL for the last 10+ years. He most certainly deserves to be on that list until his play proves other wise.
  29. gco211

    gco211 Moderator

    That sounds like a fair deal to me, I didn't know what the terms really needed to be, but that looks fine. Get this deal done with as little damage as possible over the next two years so you can resign at least one other of your major FAs. This team is primed to win now, four years from now it will need to rebuild a bit anyway. Saints are the second oldest team in the league as it is, just accept it and be prepared for a couple down years in two or three years.
  30. cmnelson1987

    cmnelson1987 SRMer

    Yes, he wants to stay in New Orleans. But, as much as he wants to stay, New Orleans needs him more. He could get just as much money by going to a different team next off season.

    I'm not saying he won't take less money in New Orleans, but that will be something he does because he is willing, not because he has to. There is far more pressure on New Orleans to bring him back than there is on Brees to settle for a lesser deal.

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