New York Yankees Thread

Discussion in 'MLB & College Baseball Discussion' started by ThomasTomasz, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. ThomasTomasz

    ThomasTomasz Moderator Staff Member

    I figure that we should at least have a thread here for the Yankees, seeing as they are one of the most talked about teams in baseball, and are certainly in for an adventerous off-season.

    Anyway, the first ball has dropped today in the NY Post......

    With this news, where do you guys see Torre? Does he have a chance to stay, or will the sons go ahead and let him walk?

    If he does go, who will the manager be? Girardi and Mattingly are the most popular rumors, but it could turn out that they look outside the organization.

    One interesting candidate, at least for pitching coach, is Leo Mazzone. The Orioles fired him earlier in the week, and two years ago, the Yankees showed a ton of interest. Now with many young pitchers on the cusp for the club, Mazzone can definitely come in and help those players out.
  2. ThomasTomasz

    ThomasTomasz Moderator Staff Member

    Here is the 2nd ball- job offered to Mattingly, which states the obvious- the Yankees are clearly ready to proceed without Torre as their manager.

    Now, the job is obviously going to be offered to Joe Girardi next. There could be a curveball thrown, but I don't think so. We'll have to wait and see- I have no doubt we'll hear about this one in about two days.
  3. J-Pass

    J-Pass The Producer

    Apprently ESPN just debunked that Mattingly declined it.
  4. ngelyana

    ngelyana SRMer

    This doesnt make any sense to me...Mattingly's agent said a couple of days ago that Mattingly was more than ready to be a manager, hoping the Yankees will hire him
  5. ThomasTomasz

    ThomasTomasz Moderator Staff Member

    Is it the end of the evil empire? Rodriguez and Rivera were two players who said that Torre staying would positively impact their chances of staying in New York. Now that Torre is gone, all bets for any favoritism to the Yanks from these two is out the door.
  6. MookStunna

    MookStunna SRMer

    Good for Torre.
    What do Riviera and Jorge really have left?
    Rivera is what, like 38? His stuff definintley was not great this season. Jorge had a good year, but he is aging also...
  7. ThomasTomasz

    ThomasTomasz Moderator Staff Member

    For the past few seasons, Rivera has really only thrown a cutter. But man, is that a nasty pitch.

    One thing that really hurt him was his bullpen getting so many innings. Usually, you want an older closer like Rivera or Hoffman to only go one inning. I think this year, more than normal, Rivera had multiple-inning games, which hurt him.

    I still wouldn't want anyone else in a tough ninth inning situation, regular season or playoff. That's how much I think of Rivera.
  8. ThomasTomasz

    ThomasTomasz Moderator Staff Member

    So, that is Pettitte, Rodriguez, Clemens and Rivera that have supported Torre and said that he was a huge factor in staying with the team. Looks like major changes are inevitable.
  9. ThomasTomasz

    ThomasTomasz Moderator Staff Member

  10. MookStunna

    MookStunna SRMer

    RUN JOE RUN!
    YOU DON'T WANT THIS!
    WHO GIVES TWO SHITS IF YOU PLAYED THERE!
    THIS IS WORSE THAN THE NOTRE DAME JOB!!!
  11. sleaving

    sleaving SRMer

    I really hope Girardi gets the job.

    Mattingly gives me this uneasy unconfident vibe for some reason, plus he was Torre's bench coach, and I think that a clean start is best. Pena seems like a retread to me, but he does have managerial experience.

    I guess it sounds like a decision will be made sooner than later...

    grc
  12. kevinwayne20

    kevinwayne20 Banned

    Isn't that the truth! There are far better jobs out there where you don't have to deal with a crazy old mother fucker always critisizing you, a media that would just asume you die so they have something to wrie about and a fan base that isn't happy with anything. But the Yankees do have a bunch of overpaid, overrated old farts going for them.
  13. ThomasTomasz

    ThomasTomasz Moderator Staff Member

    Just confirms the fact that the Yankees players really did have a ton of respect for Torre, especially players like Jeter, Rivera, Bernie Williams....the guys who had been there the longest and whom Torre helped shape as professional athletes. I wonder what the domino effects of this are going to be.
  14. MookStunna

    MookStunna SRMer

    So what if his little bitch sons are running the shit now. You really think George will let things run without his say? Fucks no. The decisions being made are just coming from someone else's mouth now, and still George's crusty brain. I would rather manage the Orioles than the Yanks right now.
  15. brothers11

    brothers11 SRMer

    Any manager who does not have a job would kill to be the yanks skipper, don't kid yourselves. It is the organization with the greatest history and as long as the Steinbrenners own the team, they will give you whatever you need to have a great lineup. The yanks struggles had nothing to do with the manager or the owners, but their lack of a true ace on the pitching staff, that's it.
  16. sleaving

    sleaving SRMer

    Did you graduate from the KevinWayne school of class?

    grc
  17. kevinwayne20

    kevinwayne20 Banned

    I agree but any manager that doesn't have a job would probably kill for any job, would they not? I didn't say NY isn't a popular gig. IMO it isn't worth the hassel. You can not deny that the old man, the media and the fan base is a hard trio to deal with as manager.
  18. kevinwayne20

    kevinwayne20 Banned

    LOL. Or he sees the obvious flaws in that orginization. It starts with the old man that fucks with every coach and it ends with the fan base that ends up blaming every coach. The media is somewhere in between those two. The New York Yankees is a tough tough gig because nothing is good enough.

    good to see your panties in a bunch though.
  19. DCDawg

    DCDawg SRMer

    Very flawed argument, brothers. You seem to suggest that it's a manager's dream job because ownership will "give you whatever you need to have a great lineup," then you say that the "struggles had nothing to do with the manager ... but their lack of a true ace on the pitching staff," yet it was the manager who took the fall anyway. That is part of why it is not the most desirable job for some managers.
  20. MookStunna

    MookStunna SRMer

    I have a feeling that organization is taking a huge turn for the worse.
    The big names are getting older, some won't come back, how much young talent do they exactly have?

    Combine that with the swarm of gnats around JabaChinNuts in the DS, a pair of sons paraphrasing a sandy vagina, and now a manager gone after making the postseason 12 straight seasons...

    I just don't know.

    Without Torre there, and seeing the way he was treated in the end, and the past few seasons, do you think any FA still wants to go there? Sure, they will pay top dollar, but where is the "I have had enough of this steaming shit line" at?
  21. pswift00

    pswift00 Moderator Staff Member

    One thing I'll say about the Torre situation is that the front office backed themselves into a corner with all the talking and speculating they did. No manager is going to do a better job than he did over the past 12 years. It's clear that the team loved him and went out there and played for him. Any "failures" that organization had during that time weren't his fault. He played the players they gave him and used all of them as effectively as he could. At some point someone in that front office is going to have to admit that there's more to winning a world championship than finding the right personnel, however. This is especially true when you're playing that first round, best of five series. Hell, an errant gob of bird shit can mean the difference in a short series like that sometimes. Point is, you can put the greatest team ever assembled out there and they're going to get beat sometimes. As Sam Elliott said in the Big Lebowski, sometimes you eat the "bar", and sometimes the "bar" eats you. All you can do is keep fighting and hope you come out on top every once in a while. Hell- 12 straight postseason appearances? How many division titles? 9? 4 world championships? And they treat him the way they did? I'm with Torre. F them.
  22. sleaving

    sleaving SRMer

    I definitely see and respect this argument/pov, but I disagree.

    The Yankees organization has spent close to 1 billion dollars over the past 6 years. They have been to 2 world series in that time, but also have also suffered the '04 ALCS debacle, followed by 3 consecutive first round exits. They are 4-13 in their past 17 playoff games.

    While these credentials might be deemed successful for some organizations the money that is invested in the payroll and Joe Torre's salary directly raise the bar of expectations. While four post-season appearances are an excellent achievement, the consistent failure in them is a tough pill to swallow when resources have been deeply invested offseason-after-offseason.

    Joe Torre was a great manager. While I think he really had a groove with the 96-01 teams, it did seem like he had a lot of difficulty managing his bullpens over the past few years and perhaps did not mesh with a lot of the newer players.

    Perhaps it was more about the likes of Paul O'Neill, Tino Martinez, Scott Brosius and healthy in-their-prime Bernie Williams & Roger Clemens in those team's post-season successes than Torre's mangerial capabilities.

    I have no hard feelings towards Torre, but I do see a mix of young talent and aging veterans on this team, that lends itself to an excellent window of opportunity to rebuild while still staying competitive. And a new manager would be an important part of that process.

    grc
  23. kevinwayne20

    kevinwayne20 Banned

    When exactly haven't they had enormous amounts of money for Free Agency? The Yankees have spent money recklessly for the last 7 years. I'm sorry but if all that money comes off the books the Yankees are going to be in a boat load of trouble. It would be impossible to replace all 5 of those players in one offseason. That is three of their four best bats from last year. There is no way they replace those 350 RBIs with just 3 players. Not too mention the loss of Pettite and Rivera would be cripling to what is already a poor pitching staff.
  24. brothers11

    brothers11 SRMer

    Any time a team fails it is the manager who takes the fall so it is not just for the yankees. Ownership can fire and replace managers where they can't do the same with players who are the ones most responsible for poor performance.
  25. sleaving

    sleaving SRMer

    Agreed. Sometimes you have to take a step back. Now is the time for them to do this.

    grc
  26. kevinwayne20

    kevinwayne20 Banned

    Not always true. Detroit didn't make the playoffs this year and they extended Leyland. Mind you that they were upset in the World Series last year and went out and traded for the best available bat in the offseason. They missed the postseason and he was given a contract extension and a raise.

    The same thing is happening to Tony L in St Louis.

    What it comes down too is that the George and Yanks fans were spoiled by one of the greatest runs in the history of all sports. So anything less than that is a failure. Now Torre is the escape goat.
  27. DCDawg

    DCDawg SRMer

    I disagree on both points. Players are waived, sent down, and not re-signed all the time. Managers' contracts are guaranteed just like players' contracts.
  28. brothers11

    brothers11 SRMer

    Well of course there are exceptions to the rule if you look hard enough. Both of those guys as well as ozzie guillen in chicago are being extended due to recent success. Just as Torre has been the past few years been held on to because of the run they had in the 90's and early 2000's. It may not always be the case but it happens. Managers get fired all the time. And Torre wasn't even fired, he rejected a one year deal that could have paid him 8 million.
  29. pswift00

    pswift00 Moderator Staff Member

    The Yankees let the wrong guy get away. They should be pushing A-Rod out the door if they want to win in the post season.

    All this talk about not winning the World Series, but can you point to any specific decisions that Torre made against Cleveland that cost them the series? What I saw was A-Rod striking out all the time or hitting a meaningless solo homerun, and their starting pitching, with the exception of Pettite, getting lit the fuck up. I didn't see Torre leaving any pitcher in too long, or making bad matchups, nor did he make any mistakes with his lineup, unless you want to say he should have either batted A-Rod 8th or benched him altogether, but he did that the year before and look at the flack he got for that. As far as the bullpen goes, he did what he could do. He's got two guys out there who can throw; Chamberlin and Rivera. But if his starter can't get to the 8th inning, then those two don't matter.
  30. brothers11

    brothers11 SRMer

    The only problem I had with Torre the past few seasons is his refusal to adapt a gmaeplan and play small ball when they needed to. When Schilling pitched just after having a procedure done on his ankle, they did not once attempt to bunt for a hit and force him to run. This past year while they were hitting into double plays left and right, he never bunted baserunners over to avoid them.

    As far as a-rod goes, the yanks would not have been in the postseason if it were not for him. It is not that he has never hit in the playoffs, he was clutch against the twins a couple years ago and he also came up with big hits in seattle. The past three years no players have hit well in the postseason.

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