Capitals Thread: Flash will not be moved

[kringle9]

no predictions???

I think this is the closest series in the playoffs.

Flyers in 7

[stsags]

Goaltending and Defense wins playoff games something the Flyer do not have.

Caps in 6

[PuckWizard]

Originally Posted by stsags

Goaltending and Defense wins playoff games something the Flyer do not have. Caps in 6

I think you'd find it very difficult to find one person that would take the Caps defense corps over the Flyers.

The Caps blueline features Mike Green, Tom Poti, Milan Jurcina, Shaone Morrisonn, John Erskine, Steve Eminger, and Jeff Schultz.

The Flyers blueline features Kimmo Timonen, Jason Smith, Braydon Coburn, Jaroslav Modry, Randy Jones, Lasse Kukkonen, Ryan Parent, and very possibly Derian Hatcher.

Between them, the Flyers defenseman have 6 All-Star game appearances. The Caps have one. The Flyers also have 3 current or former captains on their blueline.

From an experience standpoint, the Flyers have a huge advantage. Tom Poti is the only Caps defenseman to ever experience the NHL playoffs, and he's never made it out of the first round. Jason Smith and Derian Hatcher have both captained teams to the cup finals. Kimmo Timonen and Jaroslav Modry have both also been in the playoffs before. That experience, especially for defenseman, is huge in the playoffs.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Caps, especially Mike Green. All I'm saying is that it was a little bizarre that you would say the Caps will win because they have a stronger defense.

Also, while I give the Caps a slight edge in the goaltending department, I don't think it's that much of an advantage either way. Biron and Huet had almost identical numbers in the regular season. Both goalies are extremely hot now. I don't see how you can clearly say one is better than the other at this point. Both have a ton to prove.

[eagles15]

The Flyers have the most scoring depth in the nhl. I see the flyers taking this in 6

[pswift00]

It always concerns me when a red-hot team is forced to take a couple days off prior to the playoffs. Let's hope the Caps aren't a bit rusty coming out of the gate.

[stsags]

Originally Posted by PuckWizard

Originally Posted by stsags Goaltending and Defense wins playoff games something the Flyer do not have. Caps in 6 I think you'd find it very difficult to find one person that would take the Caps defense corps over the Flyers. The Caps blueline features Mike Green, Tom Poti, Milan Jurcina, Shaone Morrisonn, John Erskine, Steve Eminger, and Jeff Schultz. The Flyers blueline features Kimmo Timonen, Jason Smith, Braydon Coburn, Jaroslav Modry, Randy Jones, Lasse Kukkonen, Ryan Parent, and very possibly Derian Hatcher. Between them, the Flyers defenseman have 6 All-Star game appearances. The Caps have one. The Flyers also have 3 current or former captains on their blueline. From an experience standpoint, the Flyers have a huge advantage. Tom Poti is the only Caps defenseman to ever experience the NHL playoffs, and he's never made it out of the first round. Jason Smith and Derian Hatcher have both captained teams to the cup finals. Kimmo Timonen and Jaroslav Modry have both also been in the playoffs before. That experience, especially for defenseman, is huge in the playoffs. I'm not trying to take anything away from the Caps, especially Mike Green. All I'm saying is that it was a little bizarre that you would say the Caps will win because they have a stronger defense. Also, while I give the Caps a slight edge in the goaltending department, I don't think it's that much of an advantage either way. Biron and Huet had almost identical numbers in the regular season. Both goalies are extremely hot now. I don't see how you can clearly say one is better than the other at this point. Both have a ton to prove.

Alright I know you're high on the Flyers and you should be so don't take me too seriously but lets look at this closer:

I put a lot of stock in plus/minus. Maybe I shouldn't but it tells a story that the other stats can't tell.

Combined the Flyer defenseman are an "even" +/- on the year. Thats not saying much for a defense and the guys you mentioned are only a plus 13 with only 4 of the 8 in the positive. You take away Coburn from the equation and the squad drops to -4 for the year. Thats an issue not a strength for a d-corp.

Modry and Hatcher are old and almost useless. These guys do not impress me nor could they dream to stop the Caps. I don't think I need to elaborate on these guys, I would want either of them on the Bruins. The game has passed them and especially this "new" NHL. Watch the Caps top two lines skate circles around these two.

Not to sure Timonen knows what defense is. He's a good player and I do like him but you would not put him out there late in the game with a one goal lead.

Jason Smith- He has had some success and a true d-man, I would call him an asset and leader. He's physical and good to have around for the playoffs but getting points out of him will be iffy at best. He is getting old too but still capable but also penalty prone. Is he going to help or hurt the Flyers with his pims? I think he's your top defenseman.

Jones- good up coming player going into his first playoffs. Slightly penalty prone but not enough to hurt them. He's got some talent too and he is worth his time on the ice.

Coburn- another first time playoff guy. Very offensive minded which isn't a bad thing. Takes lots of shots and good on the PP. He is most certainly a plus to have around.

Kukkonen- He's garbage and new to the playoffs himself,I wouldn't want him to be truthful. I don't recall him much but he doesn't seem to add much. Just your average run of the mill d-man. A negative is he is small at 190 lbs.

Parent- I have no idea- he's 23 games into his career. I think I watched one Flyer game and noticed him but not really.

So there are 4 of your healthy 7 defense man going into the playoffs for the first time. Thats a lot of worry there.

I know I seem to pick on the Flyers a lot but I want to say after the Bruins do their yearly 1st round exit, I always root for the Flyers. I just think they are not impressive this year. Like the Bruins I think they are one or two years off from doing damage in the playoffs.

You want to talk scoring ability and the Flyers than they can hang with any team out there. They can score like the Scabs but their D and goal tending are behind.

[PuckWizard]

Quote:

Combined the Flyer defenseman are an "even" +/- on the year.

You included the -12 of Rory Fitzpatrick in those numbers. He's not even with the team anymore. Take that away and the +/- numbers that you put so much stock in look much better.

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Modry and Hatcher are old and almost useless.

I agree with you on Modry, but to say that about Hatcher is just crazy. Useless? He came into this season in the best shape he's been in in years and it really showed. He's still one of the best penalty killers in the league. He is excellent at clearing the front of the net, and that's a huge asset in the playoffs. He is also very effective in rubbing out forwards against the walls, and when he gets into a battle for the puck in the corner, he rarely loses. He's also still a very good shot blocker. Now he won't light it up offensively, and he won't lead a team up the ice on a rush, but he is a very effective stay at home defenseman and extremely valuable to have on any team.

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Not to sure Timonen knows what defense is. He's a good player and I do like him but you would not put him out there late in the game with a one goal lead.

Kimmo Timonen has been one of the league's most underrated defenseman for a few years now, and apparently it remains that way. Despite playing on his off side, and despite rotating partners all season long, and despite almost always being matched up with the other team's best offensive threat, this guy has had an excellent year. He was just awarded the Barry Ashbee trophy as the Flyers' most outstanding defenseman, and it wasn't even close. His Finnish background has made him more than just adequete in his own end. He's always where he's supposed to be, and he's very good at getting his stick in the passing lanes. His speed has broken up countless potential odd man rushes, and his decision making has also been very good all season. He's a leader on and off the ice, as he was the former captain of the Predators. Now again I don't know if you've been watching the same Kimmo Timonen that I've been watching, but the one I know is an extrememly solid defenseman. And since we're comparing teams here, I'd love to know which Capitals defenseman you would take over Kimmo?

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Jones- good up coming player going into his first playoffs. Slightly penalty prone but not enough to hurt them. He's got some talent too and he is worth his time on the ice.

Penalty prone? This assessment doesn't stem from the Bergeron incident does it? Jones has commited 19 minor penalties all season long. That's less than Poti, Green, Morrisonn, and Erskine.

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Kukkonen- He's garbage

When the Flyers traded for Lasse Kukkonen last season, nobody really knew much about him. I venture to say that every single Flyers fan was very pleasantly surprised. His best assett is his shot blocking. He is a fearless shot blocker. He is also very smart with the puck, as his turnover/TOI ratio is the best not only on the Flyers, but it would be the best on the Caps as well. He's not very physical, but he can usually make up for that with his positioning. The Flyers don't ask him to be a top pairing defenseman, but he's far from garbage.

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So there are 4 of your healthy 7 defense man going into the playoffs for the first time. Thats a lot of worry there.

How can you say that Flyers should be worried because only 4 of their defenseman have playoff experience when the Caps have just one defenseman with playoff experience? Tom Poti is the only Caps dman that has seen the playoffs, and he's never made it out of the first round. He's also a minus player in his playoff appearances. The Flyers have 4 guys that have been there before, and 2 guys that captained teams to the Stanley Cup Finals. If it's a worry for the Flyers, it's most certainly a worry for their opponents as well.

No please understand, that if I had to point out a weakness on the Flyers I would say that it was their defense as well. All I'm saying is that although it may be a weakness, it is also a weakness for their opponent. I don't think it's fair to base your prediction on a weakness that both teams in the matchup share. I'd take the Flyers d-corps over the Caps' anyday.

[ThomasTomasz]

I'm liking our defense. While only Poti has NHL playoff experience, an added bonus is that many of our youngsters who have come up in the system have some playoff experience in the minors, including two finals runs the past two seasons for Hershey, our AHL team, with one championship.

Mike Green I would take over all of the Flyers defensemen. Sorry, but that's just the way I see things. He was great this season.

The rest of the defense corps excel on the defensive end. John Erskine is a monster in his own end, and is great around the net and considered an enforcer out there. Shaone Morrisonn and Milan Jurcina have been great in their own ends, and have been used as running mates for Green and Poti all season.

Schultz and Eminger are decent players right now.

But, the Capitals have some great defensive forwards as well. Bradley, Brashear, Gordon, Steckel and Cooke, and you can also add Ovechkin and Fedorov to those guys.

We also have some very valuable specialists- Gordon is a wizard in the faceoff circle, Viktor Kozlov is a successful player in a shootout, and Brashear and Cooke are a great duo of enforcer/agitator.

Not to mention, the trio of Poti, Green and Morrisonn play in all sorts of scenarios, and lead the Capitals in ice time with over 20 minutes apiece.

And that's ignoring the goaltending duo of Huet and Kolzig. I think that might be the Capitals biggest advantage- Huet is on a torrid streak, and Kolzig is playoff tested.

It'll be a tough series, but I think the Capitals win this one. We've really played a lockdown style of defense the past month, and I think it transitions very well to the playoffs.

[PuckWizard]

The last thing I intended to do was to take anything away from the Capitals. I really like Mike Green. I personally think he still has a bit more to prove before I'm willing to say he's better than Kimmo Timonen or Braydon Coburn but he is without a doubt very impressive.

Again, I wasn't trying to bash the Caps defense. I was just comparing and pointing out that the Flyers defense has to at least be considered on par with what the Caps bring.

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Viktor Kozlov is a successful player in a shootout

I'm sure you know this and it just kind of slipped, but there are no shootouts in the playoffs.

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It'll be a tough series, but I think the Capitals win this one.

I didn't want to make a prediction, but you've forced me.

Flyers in 6

[stsags]

Originally Posted by PuckWizard

Quote: Combined the Flyer defenseman are an "even" +/- on the year. You included the -12 of Rory Fitzpatrick in those numbers. He's not even with the team anymore. Take that away and the +/- numbers that you put so much stock in look much better. Quote: Modry and Hatcher are old and almost useless. I agree with you on Modry, but to say that about Hatcher is just crazy. Useless? He came into this season in the best shape he's been in in years and it really showed. He's still one of the best penalty killers in the league. He is excellent at clearing the front of the net, and that's a huge asset in the playoffs. He is also very effective in rubbing out forwards against the walls, and when he gets into a battle for the puck in the corner, he rarely loses. He's also still a very good shot blocker. Now he won't light it up offensively, and he won't lead a team up the ice on a rush, but he is a very effective stay at home defenseman and extremely valuable to have on any team. Quote: Not to sure Timonen knows what defense is. He's a good player and I do like him but you would not put him out there late in the game with a one goal lead. Kimmo Timonen has been one of the league's most underrated defenseman for a few years now, and apparently it remains that way. Despite playing on his off side, and despite rotating partners all season long, and despite almost always being matched up with the other team's best offensive threat, this guy has had an excellent year. He was just awarded the Barry Ashbee trophy as the Flyers' most outstanding defenseman, and it wasn't even close. His Finnish background has made him more than just adequete in his own end. He's always where he's supposed to be, and he's very good at getting his stick in the passing lanes. His speed has broken up countless potential odd man rushes, and his decision making has also been very good all season. He's a leader on and off the ice, as he was the former captain of the Predators. Now again I don't know if you've been watching the same Kimmo Timonen that I've been watching, but the one I know is an extrememly solid defenseman. And since we're comparing teams here, I'd love to know which Capitals defenseman you would take over Kimmo? Quote: Jones- good up coming player going into his first playoffs. Slightly penalty prone but not enough to hurt them. He's got some talent too and he is worth his time on the ice. Penalty prone? This assessment doesn't stem from the Bergeron incident does it? Jones has commited 19 minor penalties all season long. That's less than Poti, Green, Morrisonn, and Erskine. Quote: Kukkonen- He's garbage When the Flyers traded for Lasse Kukkonen last season, nobody really knew much about him. I venture to say that every single Flyers fan was very pleasantly surprised. His best assett is his shot blocking. He is a fearless shot blocker. He is also very smart with the puck, as his turnover/TOI ratio is the best not only on the Flyers, but it would be the best on the Caps as well. He's not very physical, but he can usually make up for that with his positioning. The Flyers don't ask him to be a top pairing defenseman, but he's far from garbage. Quote: So there are 4 of your healthy 7 defense man going into the playoffs for the first time. Thats a lot of worry there. How can you say that Flyers should be worried because only 4 of their defenseman have playoff experience when the Caps have just one defenseman with playoff experience? Tom Poti is the only Caps dman that has seen the playoffs, and he's never made it out of the first round. He's also a minus player in his playoff appearances. The Flyers have 4 guys that have been there before, and 2 guys that captained teams to the Stanley Cup Finals. If it's a worry for the Flyers, it's most certainly a worry for their opponents as well. No please understand, that if I had to point out a weakness on the Flyers I would say that it was their defense as well. All I'm saying is that although it may be a weakness, it is also a weakness for their opponent. I don't think it's fair to base your prediction on a weakness that both teams in the matchup share. I'd take the Flyers d-corps over the Caps' anyday.

I have to say I hate when you cut up sentences and paragraphs and run your points off of that. Its easy to spin and drill your point back at someone when you do. I wish you would stop and copy and paste the entire sentence and/or paragraph.

...I said "slightly" penalty prone...that does not mean he spends alot of time in the box....

We will never agree about Hatcher...to me he is a bum and a dirty player since he came into to the league. Yes, he is big but he is slow, too slow for the new NHL. If you didn't cut up my sentence the next person could have read that it wasn't a single thought sentence.

Why compare the Caps to my points about the Flyer's defensemen? I am talking about your team and my impression of your team as it pertains to the playoffs. Your defense is not going to play against the Caps defense. Your defense will by trying to defend against the Caps forwards.

Last thing I qualified my statement about the Flyer's -/+ by stating the entire defense is "even" for the year but you cut up the rest of my paragraph that clearly pointed out the defense that you expected to play in the playoffs this year, is still a paltry +13 on the strength of one person. So you can throw the Rory comment at me but you neglected to address the rest of what I said.

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Combined the Flyer defenseman are an "even" +/- on the year. Thats not saying much for a defense and the guys you mentioned are only a plus 13 with only 4 of the 8 in the positive. You take away Coburn from the equation and the squad drops to -4 for the year. Thats an issue not a strength for a d-corp.

Thats my whole statement...see it??? But you cut it up to strengthen your argument.

So I am going to ask to not cut up my paragraphs and complete thoughts to make me look foolish when you argue with me. Please

I like to bull shit debate but I don't like having my statement cut up and twisted around.

[stsags]

Here's a classic example of how you try to twist things to your advantage:

Here's what I wrote:

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Kukkonen- He's garbage and new to the playoffs himself,I wouldn't want him to be truthful. I don't recall him much but he doesn't seem to add much. Just your average run of the mill d-man. A negative is he is small at 190 lbs.

Thats a fair statement where I include "I don't recall him much" but I explain the best I could, I even say he's run of the mill. By looking at the stats...he appears to be.

But here's how you try to slam dunk your point and make me look stupid:

You take three words of what I said and expounded on it like that was my only point:

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Kukkonen- He's garbage

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When the Flyers traded for Lasse Kukkonen last season, nobody really knew much about him. I venture to say that every single Flyers fan was very pleasantly surprised. His best assett is his shot blocking. He is a fearless shot blocker. He is also very smart with the puck, as his turnover/TOI ratio is the best not only on the Flyers, but it would be the best on the Caps as well. He's not very physical, but he can usually make up for that with his positioning. The Flyers don't ask him to be a top pairing defenseman, but he's far from garbage.

Dude what is this? Fox New Network writing 101?

[kringle9]

SIG BET !!!

[MookStunna]

Good thread guys. 8 )

[ThomasTomasz]

Originally Posted by PuckWizard

The last thing I intended to do was to take anything away from the Capitals. I really like Mike Green. I personally think he still has a bit more to prove before I'm willing to say he's better than Kimmo Timonen or Braydon Coburn but he is without a doubt very impressive. Again, I wasn't trying to bash the Caps defense. I was just comparing and pointing out that the Flyers defense has to at least be considered on par with what the Caps bring. Quote: Viktor Kozlov is a successful player in a shootout I'm sure you know this and it just kind of slipped, but there are no shootouts in the playoffs. Quote: It'll be a tough series, but I think the Capitals win this one. I didn't want to make a prediction, but you've forced me. Flyers in 6

It's not really fair comparing the whole units, because they don't really play against each other. It's forwards against defensemen. But, even though his +/- might not be as high as Timmonen or Cobourn, it was still at +6, which is impressive considering he was -10 before Boudreau took over, and this is still his second season. I will compare him and say that I'll take him over what the Flyers offer, which is nothing against them.

Now, can they stop Ovechkin and Backstrom, especially with Matt Bradley playing on Ovechkin's line? Not to mention, Ovechkin is a star who will also defend himself and his other players.

Can they stop Semin and Kozlov? This has been a deadly line for scoring so far?

Then, Matt Cooke is very hot right now, as is Sergei Fedorov. Cooke will be out there discouraging anyone from taking a shot at Ovechkin, plus the Caps have Donald Brashear and John Erskine.

I'm saying Caps in six. We split the season series, and we played some tough games against Philly, but I think right now we bring more to the table.

And yes......I know shootouts are not in the playoffs. I was dead tired yesterday.

[PuckWizard]

stsags, when I'm only addressing certain parts of your posts, it's not necessary to post the entire thing. The things that I picked out and addressed didn't change the meaning of your sentences. When you say Lasse Kukkonen is "garbage," that's pretty straight forward. Now yes you go on to add that he doesn't add much and that he is too small, but none of that changes the point of your post.

When you say Randy Jones is "slightly penalty prone," what the hell does that mean? My point was that he is no more penalty prone than any of the Caps' defenseman. If you're going to call him slightly penalty prone, than every defenseman in the league is slightly penalty prone. I was just arguing that it was a pretty baseless point you made.

I also can't understand whay you don't see the relevance in comparing the two defense corps of this matchup. This is a series preview, and these two teams are playing eachother. You said the Flyers won't win because they don't have defense. The question I posed to you is, "if the Flyers defense is better than the Caps defense, than what kind of a point is that?"

[PuckWizard]

Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz

Originally Posted by PuckWizard The last thing I intended to do was to take anything away from the Capitals. I really like Mike Green. I personally think he still has a bit more to prove before I'm willing to say he's better than Kimmo Timonen or Braydon Coburn but he is without a doubt very impressive. Again, I wasn't trying to bash the Caps defense. I was just comparing and pointing out that the Flyers defense has to at least be considered on par with what the Caps bring. Quote: Viktor Kozlov is a successful player in a shootout I'm sure you know this and it just kind of slipped, but there are no shootouts in the playoffs. Quote: It'll be a tough series, but I think the Capitals win this one. I didn't want to make a prediction, but you've forced me. Flyers in 6 It's not really fair comparing the whole units, because they don't really play against each other. It's forwards against defensemen. But, even though his +/- might not be as high as Timmonen or Cobourn, it was still at +6, which is impressive considering he was -10 before Boudreau took over, and this is still his second season. I will compare him and say that I'll take him over what the Flyers offer, which is nothing against them. Now, can they stop Ovechkin and Backstrom, especially with Matt Bradley playing on Ovechkin's line? Not to mention, Ovechkin is a star who will also defend himself and his other players. Can they stop Semin and Kozlov? This has been a deadly line for scoring so far? Then, Matt Cooke is very hot right now, as is Sergei Fedorov. Cooke will be out there discouraging anyone from taking a shot at Ovechkin, plus the Caps have Donald Brashear and John Erskine. I'm saying Caps in six. We split the season series, and we played some tough games against Philly, but I think right now we bring more to the table. And yes......I know shootouts are not in the playoffs. I was dead tired yesterday.

It's fair to ask those questions, but you'd then have to ask the same questions about the Caps defense would you not? The Flyers have seven 20 goal scorers. They roll 3 different lines that feature at least two 20 goals scorers. Do the Caps have the depth on defense to match up with that? The Flyers have the 2nd best PP in the NHL. Will the Caps be able to stop that?

Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin, Kozlov, Bradley, Federov, Cooke

Briere, Richards, Carter, Prospal, Lupul, Knuble, Hartnell, Umberger, Upshall

My point is, while obviously the Flyers defense will have to do their job and defend the Caps well, the Capitals defenseman will have to do the same. So far you guys have just questioned the ability of the Flyers to stop the Caps offense, but you fail to question the Caps ability to stop the Flyers, arguably the deepest offense in the league.

[ThomasTomasz]

Originally Posted by PuckWizard

Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz Originally Posted by PuckWizard The last thing I intended to do was to take anything away from the Capitals. I really like Mike Green. I personally think he still has a bit more to prove before I'm willing to say he's better than Kimmo Timonen or Braydon Coburn but he is without a doubt very impressive. Again, I wasn't trying to bash the Caps defense. I was just comparing and pointing out that the Flyers defense has to at least be considered on par with what the Caps bring. Quote: Viktor Kozlov is a successful player in a shootout I'm sure you know this and it just kind of slipped, but there are no shootouts in the playoffs. Quote: It'll be a tough series, but I think the Capitals win this one. I didn't want to make a prediction, but you've forced me. Flyers in 6 It's not really fair comparing the whole units, because they don't really play against each other. It's forwards against defensemen. But, even though his +/- might not be as high as Timmonen or Cobourn, it was still at +6, which is impressive considering he was -10 before Boudreau took over, and this is still his second season. I will compare him and say that I'll take him over what the Flyers offer, which is nothing against them. Now, can they stop Ovechkin and Backstrom, especially with Matt Bradley playing on Ovechkin's line? Not to mention, Ovechkin is a star who will also defend himself and his other players. Can they stop Semin and Kozlov? This has been a deadly line for scoring so far? Then, Matt Cooke is very hot right now, as is Sergei Fedorov. Cooke will be out there discouraging anyone from taking a shot at Ovechkin, plus the Caps have Donald Brashear and John Erskine. I'm saying Caps in six. We split the season series, and we played some tough games against Philly, but I think right now we bring more to the table. And yes......I know shootouts are not in the playoffs. I was dead tired yesterday. It's fair to ask those questions, but you'd then have to ask the same questions about the Caps defense would you not? The Flyers have seven 20 goal scorers. They roll 3 different lines that feature at least two 20 goals scorers. Do the Caps have the depth on defense to match up with that? The Flyers have the 2nd best PP in the NHL. Will the Caps be able to stop that? Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin, Kozlov, Bradley, Federov, Cooke Briere, Richards, Carter, Prospal, Lupul, Knuble, Hartnell, Umberger, Upshall My point is, while obviously the Flyers defense will have to do their job and defend the Caps well, the Capitals defenseman will have to do the same. So far you guys have just questioned the ability of the Flyers to stop the Caps offense, but you fail to question the Caps ability to stop the Flyers, arguably the deepest offense in the league.

Our defense can stop the Flyers at even strength. That I'm not too concerned about. I do question our ability on the penalty kill, which has again been in the bottom third of the league. Although, we have benefited from Cristobal Huet being in net and making some saves while the team has been shorthanded.

That, along with the play of Alexander Ovechkin, are the two key things that will put this series in Washington's hands, or take it away.

[stsags]

Originally Posted by PuckWizard

stsags, when I'm only addressing certain parts of your posts, it's not necessary to post the entire thing. The things that I picked out and addressed didn't change the meaning of your sentences. When you say Lasse Kukkonen is "garbage," that's pretty straight forward. Now yes you go on to add that he doesn't add much and that he is too small, but none of that changes the point of your post. When you say Randy Jones is "slightly penalty prone," what the hell does that mean? My point was that he is no more penalty prone than any of the Caps' defenseman. If you're going to call him slightly penalty prone, than every defenseman in the league is slightly penalty prone. I was just arguing that it was a pretty baseless point you made. I also can't understand whay you don't see the relevance in comparing the two defense corps of this matchup. This is a series preview, and these two teams are playing eachother. You said the Flyers won't win because they don't have defense. The question I posed to you is, "if the Flyers defense is better than the Caps defense, than what kind of a point is that?"

Then don't take what I say out of context and change what I said so you can cut it up! Period end of story.

If it's pointless then ignore it do not change it into something someone didn't say to make an argument.

And again you didn't address the three other things you hacked into something I didn't say but again spun and went after the things you think you see a hole in. You tried beating me up on the -/+ thing but clearly in my next statement I qualified and backed up what I saying about your defense in relation to the -/+ but you decide to cut my paragraph and babble about Rory Fitzpatrick to make me look stupid and cut me up. Thats Fox News Network reporting 101. Take one thing out of context and beat on it. And if it continues I just will stay away from debating you. All this has done has taken away from my original points about the Flyers defense which may have been your goal.


And no sorry, you can not compare defenses the way you are doing. Like I said and it appears Thomas agrees with me..... The defenses do not pit each other against each other in the manner you are trying to argue. Your defense will be matching up against the Caps forwards. And it is my contention that the Flyers defense is too slow and stuck in the old school thinking to be able to stop them. The Caps forwards will be skating circles around your slow footed, injury intending goons back there.

You think I am the only around the league that thinks the Flyers are dirty?
I know you don't but the rest of the league and writers do....

example:

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/...psules/?page=2

Quote:

Page 2 of 2 -- (3) Washington vs. (6) Philadelphia Season series: Tied, 2-2 Just get yourself in front of the tube Friday night for the series opener, toss the clicker in the basket, and wait for No. 8 to come rolling over the boards for the Capitals. Remember when we used to wait for No. 8 to do the same in the Hub of Hockey? Alex Ovechkin, who scored more goals (65) and points (112) than anyone else this season, is the best take in the game, and potentially its Michael Jordan of this era. He can win games alone, just one of the reasons he will be named the Hart (MVP) winner in a landslide (check the June 12 award ceremony). Under coach Glen Hanlon, the Caps came out flatter than the lawn at Constitution Mall, prompting general manager George McPhee to summon Bruce Boudreau from the minors. Then came the deadline deals that added No. 1 goaltender Cristobal Huet and aged Russian icon Sergei Fedorov (38). The Capitals went a blistering 15-4 (a Celtic-like .789) the rest of the way, and jiggled into the playoffs by winning their 82d game - knocking the Hurricanes summarily out of the Southeast Division championship, the No. 3 seed, and the entire postseason. The Flyers, one of five teams to make the playoffs this year after a DNQ in '07, spent much of the season more intent on hurting people (see: Patrice Bergeron and Andrew Alberts) than actually trying to win games, or even play hockey. In fact, when the league finally got around to telling them to back off the kill shots, they looked extraordinarily ordinary, though the return of Danny Briere, who's confident he'll play after a knee injury, might help. Oh, and if you can take your eyes off Ovechkin, look for fellow Cap Nicklas Backstrom - he should be at the awards ceremony as rookie of the year. PREDICITION: Capitals in five.

Thats what writers and experts think of your team around the league. DuPont is one of the fairest beat writers I know. I never read or hear him bash other teams like this but obviously it is an issue this year with you guys. Why does a team usually run around and play dirty? They are slow and can't keep up. Which why the Caps forwards will run around you guys easily.

[ThomasTomasz]

Well, I liked seeing that he thinks Backstrom should be the Calder winner. Of course, I think the same thing, but realize it could very well be split between two Blackhawks- Toews and Kane.

[PuckWizard]

stsags, I'm not going to argue with you because you just go in circles. I never once changed a sentence that you made. I never inserted or ommited words that would have altered the meaning of what you wrote. I didn't pick and choose what I would quote to suit my argument, I simply quoted the parts of your post that I was addressing. If you can't understand that, so be it, I'm done on that subject.

Secondly, while I respect your point of view and opinions, it has become painfully obvious to me that you have not watched many Flyers games this season, if any. While that is fine, and I wouldn't expect you to, you shouldn't talk like you have. When you make statements like "Timonen doesn't know what defense is," or "the Flyers are a slow team," your bias and/or ignorance on those topics really shows.

I have already addressed Timonen, and now let me ask you what gives you this crazy idea that the Flyers are a slow team? I can see how you would think that if you were going on reputation, but not if you watched any games, or actually took the time to look over the roster. I'm very curious to hear how you can call a lineup that features Briere, Upshall, Kapanen, Richards, Carter, Umberger, Lupul, Timonen, Coburn, Jones, etc. slow. That's more than half of the lineup right there and all of them have above average speed. Other guys like Prospal, Hartnell, and Dowd are far from slow.

As for the "dirty play," again I've already addressed it in another thread, and I provided a link. The league had an obvious bias when looking at Flyers' incidents.

But anyway, this thread is for the first round matchup between the Flyers and Capitals. Arguing about all this other stuff is pointless.