Well clearly if you have one of the best defenses in NFL history and your team still has to come from behind in half your games something is wrong. Sugar coat it all you want but only Favre turned the ball over more than Ben in 08 (A FACT that clearly got in your way but again, excuses make it disappear, right?), If he wasn't so turnover prone his team wouldn't have been losing in the 4th quarter 8 different times.
Is the QB not part of the team? Sorry, as a Packer fan I know how much QB turnovers hurt your TEAM! I can pick 4 or 5 teams on that list that don't have to worry about their QB blowing it with turnovers. They can't brag about having 8 come from behind victories but that is because they were NOT good enough to not have to come from behind......
Prior to Ben racking up the come-from-behind numbers, wasn't Brady considered the best at coming from behind (and probably still is, to many)? Didn't he have the best numbers in that area? Why did he have to come from behind so much, if his teams are some of the best of the decade?
But, as it has been stated already.. the 08 team had ups and downs, but was a very tough team. I was at the AFC Championship game that year, against the Ravens, and it was the best game I've ever been to. The 05 team wasn't spectacular in the Superbowl, but this isn't about the best superbowl performance, its about which team that has won a superbowl was the best team. The 2005 Steelers beat the 1, 2, and 3 seeds in the AFC, and the 1 seed in the NFC. That alone is impressive. They did lose to the 1 seed (Colts) in the regular season, and split the series with Cincy (3 seed), and lost to the Pats (4 seed) and Jags (5 seed). They did beat the NFC 2 seed, the Bears, in the regular season.
The problem with picking the "best team" in a season is that teams fluctuate throughout the season. The 2005 Steelers are a good example - above average regular season, great in the playoffs. The Titans of 2009 struggled alot early on, but looked potentially strong after they got out of their funk. Some teams struggle early, or fizzle out late. How do we evaluate which team is "best" - do we look at how they ended? How they were all season, and if so how to do take into account "down" points in the season? Do we look for the team that had the most consistency in their mean level of play throughout the season, or the team with the strongest efforts, even if that meant some low points? (aka generally above-average, or great for the most part but with some bad losses?)
Prior to Ben racking up the come-from-behind numbers, wasn't Brady considered the best at coming from behind (and probably still is, to many)? Didn't he have the best numbers in that area? Why did he have to come from behind so much, if his teams are some of the best of the decade?
But, as it has been stated already.. the 08 team had ups and downs, but was a very tough team. I was at the AFC Championship game that year, against the Ravens, and it was the best game I've ever been to. The 05 team wasn't spectacular in the Superbowl, but this isn't about the best superbowl performance, its about which team that has won a superbowl was the best team. The 2005 Steelers beat the 1, 2, and 3 seeds in the AFC, and the 1 seed in the NFC. That alone is impressive. They did lose to the 1 seed (Colts) in the regular season, and split the series with Cincy (3 seed), and lost to the Pats (4 seed) and Jags (5 seed). They did beat the NFC 2 seed, the Bears, in the regular season.
The problem with picking the "best team" in a season is that teams fluctuate throughout the season. The 2005 Steelers are a good example - above average regular season, great in the playoffs. The Titans of 2009 struggled alot early on, but looked potentially strong after they got out of their funk. Some teams struggle early, or fizzle out late. How do we evaluate which team is "best" - do we look at how they ended? How they were all season, and if so how to do take into account "down" points in the season? Do we look for the team that had the most consistency in their mean level of play throughout the season, or the team with the strongest efforts, even if that meant some low points? (aka generally above-average, or great for the most part but with some bad losses?)
IMO.... I guess the difference to me is why the team was losing. The Steelers were losing a lot of their games going into the 4th quarter because of turnovers by their offense (Ben in particular). Tom Brady does have a lot of 4th quarter come backs but they were rarely his fault for being in those situations. He had some good defenses but nothing even close to that 08 Steeler D. I mean the 08 Steelers had to come back in the 4th quarter in 12 of their 16 regular season games. While they were no doubt a great team I can't put them in the top 5 or 6 best teams in the last 10 years. Teams with amazing defenses usually aren't forced to come back in 3/4 of their games in a season. Again, JMO. Some use the comebacks as a reason to why they were so great, I almost see them as a flaw. The best teams usually aren't losing 3/4 of their games in the 4th quarter.
IMO.... I guess the difference to me is why the team was losing. The Steelers were losing a lot of their games going into the 4th quarter because of turnovers by their offense (Ben in particular). Tom Brady does have a lot of 4th quarter come backs but they were rarely his fault for being in those situations. He had some good defenses but nothing even close to that 08 Steeler D. I mean the 08 Steelers had to come back in the 4th quarter in 12 of their 16 regular season games. While they were no doubt a great team I can't put them in the top 5 or 6 best teams in the last 10 years. Teams with amazing defenses usually aren't forced to come back in 3/4 of their games in a season. Again, JMO. Some use the comebacks as a reason to why they were so great, I almost see them as a flaw. The best teams usually aren't losing 3/4 of their games in the 4th quarter.
Great D + average O.... All-Time Great D + below-average O.. how do we decide which is better? Ravens' Superbowl team or Steelers Superbowl team?
This also comes down to a fundamental question for football fans... does a TD late count more than a TD early? Does getting the "go ahead" TD with 1 minute left in the 4th mean more than getting the "go ahead" TD in the 2nd or 3rd Q?
IMO, a TD is a TD. A 31-28 game with a score for each team in each quarter... or with all the points coming in the first half... or with all the points coming in the 4th Q... either way, each team scores the same number of points. A QB being able to handle the pressure of coming back late is a great skill to have on your team - some QBs can, some QBs can't. But just because a team had to score with 2 left, that doesn't mean they are not as good as a team who got that score in the 3rd.. or 2nd Q, and followed with a stalemate for the rest of the game.
As much as I hate Ray Lewis and the Ravens, at least the Ravens didn't need a national tragedy to be given a Super Bowl title...
As much as I dislike the Pats, I do not think this is a fair characterization of the team or the situation. Hell, the Giants and Jets needed it far more than the Pats, plus the Pats had Belly's system and coaching, with a class of assistants that were really, really good together. Their defensive talent was really more stout than they were given credit for, and Brady and his decision making were just coming into prime form. I see 9-11 having very little to do with the Pats winning their first ring. Frankly, the Pats got dipshit Mike Martz to decide not to use Marshall Freaking Faulk.
Great D + average O.... All-Time Great D + below-average O.. how do we decide which is better? Ravens' Superbowl team or Steelers Superbowl team?
This also comes down to a fundamental question for football fans... does a TD late count more than a TD early? Does getting the "go ahead" TD with 1 minute left in the 4th mean more than getting the "go ahead" TD in the 2nd or 3rd Q?
IMO, a TD is a TD. A 31-28 game with a score for each team in each quarter... or with all the points coming in the first half... or with all the points coming in the 4th Q... either way, each team scores the same number of points. A QB being able to handle the pressure of coming back late is a great skill to have on your team - some QBs can, some QBs can't. But just because a team had to score with 2 left, that doesn't mean they are not as good as a team who got that score in the 3rd.. or 2nd Q, and followed with a stalemate for the rest of the game.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Just a couple points though.
* The 2000 Ravens offense was ranked 14th (pts) in the NFL that year. That is compared to the 2008 Steelers offense that was ranked 20th. Hard to compare because of the change in the rules in the NFL but I was surprised by this. So in 2000 the Ravens were every bit as potent on offense.
* One of the reason's I'd take the Ravens over the Steelers is because of the running game. I'd take a game manager with a great running game over a game changer with no running game every day of the week. Having a running game shortens the game and limits the turnover opportunities.
* You are living on the edge when you are forcing your team to play from behind late in the 4th quarter almost every single week. A lucky bounce or a bad call can cost you a game. Most of the teams on that list were winning their games in more of a convincing manner. There is nothing convincing about coming from behind week in and week out.
*The Ravens ST was one of the better ST units in the NFL in 00. They had a pro bowl returner in Lewis and pro bowl kicker in Stover.
as much as i dislike the pats, i do not think this is a fair characterization of the team or the situation. Hell, the giants and jets needed it far more than the pats, plus the pats had belly's system and coaching, with a class of assistants that were really, really good together. Their defensive talent was really more stout than they were given credit for, and brady and his decision making were just coming into prime form. I see 9-11 having very little to do with the pats winning their first ring. Frankly, the pats got dipshit mike martz to decide not to use marshall freaking faulk.
Whatifsports has the 09 Saints as the best Super Bowl team of the Decade, & 20th best Super Bowl team ever. They are usually right with a LOT of their predictions, so there you go.
* The 2000 Ravens offense was ranked 14th (pts) in the NFL that year. That is compared to the 2008 Steelers offense that was ranked 20th. Hard to compare because of the change in the rules in the NFL but I was surprised by this. So in 2000 the Ravens were every bit as potent on offense.
Do you actually think the Ravens would have driven down the field and won the Superbowl like Ben and the Steelers did?
If so, you need more help than I originally thought.
The Steelers played games very close to the vest last year. It was Tomlin's strategy against a tough schedule with an all-world defense. You can say it was stupid, but it worked as Ben was able to score every time they needed him to.
You can say they were down because of turnovers but if you actually watched the games, you'd know that turnovers weren't the reason they were down. Bruce Arians is an idiot and didn't unleash the passing game until they needed to win. Which was different from this year when they chucked it all over the place.
Then again Ben had fewer INTs than Brady or Manning this year. I guess he's just a turnover machine.
I'd like to see ESPN or someone simulate games because I think it's hilarious so many anti-Steeler fans are rating their Superbowl teams low.
I am still trying to comprehend the fact that many people high up in Govt. conspired with the NFL in 2002 and handed the Pats a SB win. This is earth shattering to me and here I was thinking they rallied down the field in that last minute in a tie game for that field goal. Man, I wonder how the Govt and NFL were able to put that together?
I don't understand why the 05 Steelers aren't getting more consideration, they were a very impressive team, especially in the postseason. Not saying that they're the best, but they're definitely up there.
06 Colts: Lets not forget this team was only a 3 seed. They weren't exactly blowing doors down in the regular season.
Manning's numbers:
Wildcard round:30 of 38 (78%), 268 yards, 1 TD, 3 INTs
Divisional round:15 of 30 (50%), 170 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs
AFCC: 27 of 47 (57%), 349 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
Superbowl:25 of 38 (66%) 247 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
Total: 97 of 153 (63%) 3 TDs, 7 INTs
The 05 and 08 Steelers would have dismantled them.
Don't even get me started on the 01 or 03 Patriots. They have no business being ranked as one of the top Sueprbowl teams. The 04 team was deadly but the 01 and 03 teams and in particular the 01 team got by on a lot of luck.
As much as I hate Ray Lewis and the Ravens, at least the Ravens didn't need a national tragedy to be given a Super Bowl title...
Really? Your going to go there? You ignorant little bitch. You really think 4 years later the NFL would do this? No it would have been a year or two after. If you watched football, and knew about the Saints, you knew if they got a defense that could make some plays , the Saints would go deep into the playoffs. Given? How was it given? Or are you another dumb fucking racsist redneck that needs to have his 12 gauge shoot off in his face?
You sir, need to find the highest building around you, and jump off.
Really? Your going to go there? You ignorant little bitch. You really think 4 years later the NFL would do this? No it would have been a year or two after. If you watched football, and knew about the Saints, you knew if they got a defense that could make some plays , the Saints would go deep into the playoffs. Given? How was it given? Or are you another dumb fucking racsist redneck that needs to have his 12 gauge shoot off in his face?
You sir, need to find the highest building around you, and jump off.
Wait wait...before he jumps, I want to hear him explain how the NFL pulled it off...
BTW he was talking about the Pats and 9-11 not the Saints.
I don't understand why the 05 Steelers aren't getting more consideration, they were a very impressive team, especially in the postseason. Not saying that they're the best, but they're definitely up there.
It's cause people just look at numbers blindly and lets be honest, a lot of them ranting against the Steelers are known anti-Steeler posters.
They forget that Ben missed 4 games that year.
The Steelers were 9-3 in games Ben started with two of those losess coming in the 1st two weeks back from his 3 week hiatus from a fairly serious injury. The 1st game back being a blow out loss to the Colts in Indy.
They finished the season winning their last 4, and then we all know of the playoff run.
People point to Ben's numbers in the Superbowl as a reason they aren't deserving.
However, when you look at his playoff numbers minus the SUperbowl, they're actually pretty damn good.
The 05 team was pretty much the same team as the 04 team, except Ben was better, although injured.
wildcard:14 of 19 (73%) 208 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
divisional:14 of 24 (58%)197 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT (Ben was also white hot to start this game and if it weren't for Bettis fumble at the 1, this game wasn't even close)
AFCC:21 of 29 (72%) 275 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs (they absolutely dismantled the Broncos in Denver, after Denver creamed NE)
Superbowl: 9 of 21 (43%)123, 0 TDs, 2 INTs
Total: 58 of 93 (62%) 803 yards, 7 TDs, 3 INTs
It's a joke really, that people bash Ben for his performance in those playoffs yet completely ignore Manning's poor performance. Ben had 1 bad game, Manning had 3 in their 1st Superbowl runs. Not to mention Ben was a 2nd year player, where as Manning was already the golden boy.
I don't know what more the 05 team needed to do to prove to folks they were good. They kicked the crap out of the top seeds in the AFC and the best in the NFC.
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Welcome to Sports Rumor Mill! We are one of the top sports destination for talking about the latest news, rumors, trades and scores. If you feel you have something important to say about sports, say it here. We only have 1 rule, "Come strong or don't come at all." Or in the words of Jim Rome, "Have a take and don't suck!"