Pats / Colts

Bob · #1 11-16-2009, 09:50 AM

What are anyone's thoughts regarding Belichek going for it on 4th and 2? He didn't think the defense would be able to stop them after a punt and wanted to put it away. I have heard someone say it was an arrogant move by him. That's stupid. And as far as that ruling on the bobble that sucked. It looks like the road to the Superbowl will go through Indy. I still have confidence that the Pats can beat them. And, one last thing! Please get rid of that piece of garbage Maroney - this guy SUCKS!!!!! Bust, bust, bust!!!!! He said that he was going to stop listening to everyone's advice on how to run and go back to his normal running style? Please don't make me laugh!!!!!! Nice fumble! I can't believe that after Taylor & Morris went down he has done nothing! This scrub needs to step up!!!!!! Get him out of here!!!!!!!!

JShow34 · #2 11-16-2009, 09:53 AM

I don't know how people can rag on Belichek for going for it. He wanted to put away the game right then and there and had confidence that his offense would do so. As surprising as the move was, it's not as shocking coming from him. He's made a career out of doing things unconventional.

You can't get anywhere if you don't take risks.

gco211 · #3 11-16-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JShow34

I don't know how people can rag on Belichek for going for it. He wanted to put away the game right then and there and had confidence that his offense would do so. As surprising as the move was, it's not as shocking coming from him. He's made a career out of doing things unconventional.

You can't get anywhere if you don't take risks.

You can rag on him because it was the wrong move, plain and simple. You simply don't go for it there.

Bob · #4 11-16-2009, 10:20 AM

They have made it on 4th down 76% of the time I believe. I would have done the same thing. I don't think they would have stopped the Colts if they punted. It's easy to say it's wrong, because it didn't work.

gco211 · #5 11-16-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob

They have made it on 4th down 76% of the time I believe. I would have done the same thing. I don't think they would have stopped the Colts if they punted. It's easy to say it's wrong, because it didn't work.

And because they went for it on fourth down from more than a yard out within their own 30 yard line.

Lawdog · #6 11-16-2009, 11:18 AM

This is not debatable, Pats apologists. Sorry, but Belly's decision is more of an indictment on his own defense than it is having alleged confidence in the offense. If you really have confidence in the O, why the measley check down to Faulk? Throw the ball to Welker or even Watson or Moss? But, going for it on your own side of the field, closer than further from your own endzone, with a six point lead with two and change in the fourth? You think Dungy, or Parcells, Gibbs, or Landry would have gone for it there? No freaking way. And now, what does the Hooded One tell his defense the rest of the year, well we can go for it now from there because it is not Peyton Manning, or will they be thinking they cannot stop the other team and their coach knows it.

I agree with Belly's concern about the D not stopping Peyton & Co. from 70 yards out or so, but you don't make it easy for them. It would have been a closer call at home, but on the road? Really?

wvette609 · #7 11-16-2009, 12:07 PM

I liked the call. It showed guts.

I don't agree with it because Pey Pey wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire, but if Belicheat thought he had a better chance making it then he's the coach and that is what he gets paid to do.

Faulk would have had it too, had he not juggled the ball.

Lawdog · #8 11-16-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvette609

I liked the call. It showed guts.

I don't agree with it because Pey Pey wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire, but if Belicheat thought he had a better chance making it then he's the coach and that is what he gets paid to do.

Faulk would have had it too, had he not juggled the ball.

To quote Tony Dungy or Mike Tomlin, it is all about situational football. Pats convert 76% of the time on 4th down. Advantage Pats, but how many on the road, how many in the fourth? Unknown.

Pats are on their own 28 with 4th and more than a yard. Advantage Colts. Pats are on the road. Advantage Colts.

If this had been on the 50 yard line or so, I get it. But if you are afraid Manning is going to run the table at 70 plus away from your end zone, how should you feel about giving the ball to him at your own 28? For the record, both Bruschi and Harrison agree with me that the call was just plain whacky and Bruschi says it will damage the defensive confidence for the rest of the season.

dolfan2004 · #9 11-16-2009, 01:28 PM

This isn't like going for a 4th and 2 on Indy's 40... missing that, 2nd guessing is purely hind sight being 20-20... they were deep in their own territory, that was a bad call and not having it backfire would be luck.

gribbzz · #10 11-16-2009, 02:27 PM

I couldn't stop thinking about this all day.

I like the call to go for it as I said because there was no way the Colts wouldn't drive and win the game. They just drove the field and scored a few minutes before. Sure there are intangibles like miss-communication that we saw all game from Manning and his Wrs but I think they were on page at that moment in time.

The biggest problem I have with Belichicks decision is the way he managed that last drive. The way he wasted the timeout which didn't allow him to at least lineup on 4th down and decide and if they went for it then challenge the call on the field. It was really close and could have used a look but wasn't within the 2 minutes so they didn't get that look.

It just seemed like a fearful call made at the last second based on the fact Brady was surprised and the Hansen was coming on to punt to begin with.

According to the sports radio I was listening to on the way home from work they said there is evidence that the odds of winning were better by going for it than punting it away, I would like to read more about this.

gribbzz · #11 11-16-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawdog

To quote Tony Dungy or Mike Tomlin, it is all about situational football. Pats convert 76% of the time on 4th down. Advantage Pats, but how many on the road, how many in the fourth? Unknown.

Or the king of it, Bill Belichick himself. He is well known for that and unfortunately this will be the the "worst" call if you want to call it that and will be infamous for it.

Lawdog · #12 11-16-2009, 02:43 PM

Bill Simmons from ESPN's the BS report is an extremely avid Boston sports fan and calls it one of the worst calls ever. He admits he regularly makes fun of Andy Reid for bad 4th down calls but Andy has never made a call like this one.

ESPN Radio - SuperStream Player

Lawdog · #13 11-16-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gribbzz

I couldn't stop thinking about this all day.

I like the call to go for it as I said because there was no way the Colts wouldn't drive and win the game. They just drove the field and scored a few minutes before. Sure there are intangibles like miss-communication that we saw all game from Manning and his Wrs but I think they were on page at that moment in time.

The biggest problem I have with Belichicks decision is the way he managed that last drive. The way he wasted the timeout which didn't allow him to at least lineup on 4th down and decide and if they went for it then challenge the call on the field. It was really close and could have used a look but wasn't within the 2 minutes so they didn't get that look.

It just seemed like a fearful call made at the last second based on the fact Brady was surprised and the Hansen was coming on to punt to begin with.

According to the sports radio I was listening to on the way home from work they said there is evidence that the odds of winning were better by going for it than punting it away, I would like to read more about this.

Easterbrook did a pretty detailed study and he thinks the call advantages going for it on about a 2-1 margin. However, in this case, I bet he would have said the spot of the ball and road condition, along with the problems the Colt WRs not named Wayne were having, means you kick and play the field position.

wvette609 · #14 11-16-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gribbzz

The biggest problem I have with Belichicks decision is the way he managed that last drive. The way he wasted the timeout which didn't allow him to at least lineup on 4th down and decide and if they went for it then challenge the call on the field. It was really close and could have used a look but wasn't within the 2 minutes so they didn't get that look.

Yeah, they didn't execute very well on that drive, and I can see complaints about how it was handled.

I'm seeing way too much results based responses about this call today. Whether he got it or not shouldn't determine if it was a good call, and had he gotten it I imagine we'd be hearing how smart it was.

As I said, I like the call. Hell there was a 4th and short in the OSU game where the Buckeyes were deep on their side of the field and I was calling for Tressel to go for it.

Carroll did it a number of times against the Buckeyes and it paid off for him. You think Tressel would have learned.

gribbzz · #15 11-16-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawdog

Bill Simmons from ESPN's the BS report is an extremely avid Boston sports fan and calls it one of the worst calls ever. He admits he regularly makes fun of Andy Reid for bad 4th down calls but Andy has never made a call like this one.

ESPN Radio - SuperStream Player

I do read what he writes every once in a while, he makes me laugh a lot. As for his thoughts on this it means just as much as some of the reporters up here are saying. Some say its good some say its bad, everyone has an opinion on it.

Quote:

Easterbrook did a pretty detailed study and he thinks the call advantages going for it on about a 2-1 margin. However, in this case, I bet he would have said the spot of the ball and road condition, along with the problems the Colt WRs not named Wayne were having, means you kick and play the field position.

It was two yards and you play to win not play to not lose. Conventional wisdom would say thats how you play this situation but like it was said if you don't take risks you don't gain anything from it.

Quote:

Yeah, they didn't execute very well on that drive, and I can see complaints about how it was handled.

I'm seeing way too much results based responses about this call today. Whether he got it or not shouldn't determine if it was a good call, and had he gotten it I imagine we'd be hearing how smart it was.

As I said, I like the call. Hell there was a 4th and short in the OSU game where the Buckeyes were deep on their side of the field and I was calling for Tressel to go for it.

At least half of the people that hate the call would love the call if Faulk doesn't bobble the ball. If he straight caught it we had the first down and the game and Belichick would be super genius again. There are a lot of swing guys based on what happens.

Negrodamus · #16 11-16-2009, 03:09 PM

I loved the call... Its late in the game and you have a QB who has won 3 superbowls and a very prolific offense. The other side has arguably the best QB of all time. You do what you have to to keep him off the field. I wouldn't criticize him for punting the ball but if he got the first down there, Belichick would be called a genius. Obviously didn't happen but I give credit for someone to show guts in a situation like that.

gribbzz · #17 11-16-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negrodamus

I loved the call... Its late in the game and you have a QB who has won 3 superbowls and a very prolific offense. The other side has arguably the best QB of all time. You do what you have to to keep him off the field. I wouldn't criticize him for punting the ball but if he got the first down there, Belichick would be called a genius. Obviously didn't happen but I give credit for someone to show guts in a situation like that.

Exactly! And to this point the Patriots were out playing the Colts offensively and defensively. They unraveled and the Colts took advantage of it. end of story.

This is just going to make the playoffs that much better.

Deftoner · #18 11-16-2009, 03:50 PM

My only problem is that if this was indeed four-down territory after getting a third and 8, I run it both times, either with QB sneaks or give it to our best healthy north-south runner in BenJarvus Green-Ellis. I think if Fred Taylor would have been playing, its not even a question.

mheal10 · #19 11-16-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gribbzz

It was two yards and you play to win not play to not lose. Conventional wisdom would say thats how you play this situation but like it was said if you don't take risks you don't gain anything from it.

There's a cliche for every opinion. What about not beating yourself, but making the other team beat you? The Patriots beat themselves last night.

What this came down to was Belichick thought the chance that the Pats could convert was greater than the chance of his defense being able to stop Peyton and the Colts if he punted it away, and he wanted the game decided with his offense on the field. I say you at least make the Colts go down the field and hurry a little bit. The Colts knew they had all the time in the world on their last drive.

ACC Rulez · #20 11-16-2009, 05:51 PM

One question...if this play was so great on 4th and 2...why not run it on third down?

I don't like the call. you can call it arrogance. you can call it taking risks. The fact is, you do not have the confidence in your defense to stop Peyton from going 70 yeards, so you would rather risk it on 4th and 2. that is a statement about what he feels about his defense.

When you go for "risky" calls, you have to live with the results. If this was any coach beside Bellichick (let's say Zorn, Mangini or whoever), that fan base would be calling for his head. When you go for it...and go for a pass that close to the line....you put the game on the line. What if the official gives you a bad spot? You lost. I am all for going for it on 4th down in the situations....but being up 6, 2 mins to go and on your own 28 yard line is not the ticket.