Update: Werth named to All-Star team

RickyRanjeev27 · #21 07-10-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainwreck

Not playing as badly as it did originally, but it is still one of 14 parks playing in favor of hitters and it is top ten in HRs.

Werth is obviously good at has done well away, but does not mean his home stats get helped.

RBIs and Runs are meaningless though since they are team dependent. Not Kemp's fault Torre is a bit crazy.

Phillies as a team have hit much better on the road this year and werth is one of those guys. they have hit i think either more or an equal amount of homers on the road then at home.

besides the ball park is not really helping jayson, the dude can hit some BOMBS. i saw him in bp once and he can blast. did you see that home run vs the jays a few weeks ago. it was the first third deck home run there in YEARSSS

RickyRanjeev27 · #22 07-10-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatticusHB6

Jeter has the worst range of all SS in major league baseball.
I bet Ripken could come out of retirement today and still cover more ground.

he does. i read something about defense 2 years ago. a grading system. and jeter's, even in his supposed best years was still not even top 10 in AL let alone baseball.

but his numbers offensively are more than enough to make up for it.

Jrolls d on the other hand has made up for his offense this year. the guy seists to amaze me. plus his bat is turning around, he has been hot, and since he got hot, the phils are 6-1. in that 1 game the phils lost was rollins worst game of the week.

that shows how important he is to this club.

RickyRanjeev27 · #23 07-10-2009, 01:16 PM

i really think they need to make rbi opportunities and official stat (by players on base, so not including home run opportunities) so rbi conversion rates can be calculated. im tired of hearing all this bullshit about lineups giving more chances, because the dodgers have scored more than enough runs this year.

RickyRanjeev27 · #24 07-10-2009, 01:17 PM

the phils have scored 444 and dodgers have scored 421 so its not a large difference. im sure kemp has had close to as many opportunities as werth has had.

bnbhard · #25 07-10-2009, 01:40 PM

Just a question, I thought if a player on the national league team had to drop out of the allstar game Pablo Sandoval Would be the first alternative?

trainwreck · #26 07-10-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyRanjeev27

the phils have scored 444 and dodgers have scored 421 so its not a large difference. im sure kemp has had close to as many opportunities as werth has had.

No, he has not. He has hit 7th or 8th pretty much all year for some insane reason.

RBIs and runs like wins and saves are dumb stats. They should not be used to make arguments. There are tons of advanced stats out there easily available.

Here are a couple:

VORP
Matt Kemp 30.00 (20th best in baseball)
Jayson Werth 25.3 (36th best in baseball)

Here is a good advanced stat where Werth beats Kemp

OPS +
Matt Kemp 131
Jayson Werth 132

They are pretty close overall. Kemp comes out slight favorite when you look at a lot of stats, mostly, because of his defense.

trainwreck · #27 07-10-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbhard

Just a question, I thought if a player on the national league team had to drop out of the allstar game Pablo Sandoval Would be the first alternative?

No, fan vote no longer means anything.

RickyRanjeev27 · #28 07-10-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbhard

Just a question, I thought if a player on the national league team had to drop out of the allstar game Pablo Sandoval Would be the first alternative?

no because sandoval doesnt play OF therefore would just be a stupid replacement for Beltran

RickyRanjeev27 · #29 07-10-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainwreck

No, he has not. He has hit 7th or 8th pretty much all year for some insane reason.

RBIs and runs like wins and saves are dumb stats. They should not be used to make arguments. There are tons of advanced stats out there easily available.

Here are a couple:

VORP
Matt Kemp 30.00 (20th best in baseball)
Jayson Werth 25.3 (36th best in baseball)

Here is a good advanced stat where Werth beats Kemp

OPS +
Matt Kemp 131
Jayson Werth 132

They are pretty close overall. Kemp comes out slight favorite when you look at a lot of stats, mostly, because of his defense.

which is why i wish they had rbi opportunities as a stat. that would automatically become my favorite, being able to know who actually is the best at converting rbis is sort of also a determining factor in clutchness also.

but right now we don't need that stat, to know who is the best in baseball, obviously that is pujols

bnbhard · #30 07-10-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyRanjeev27

no because sandoval doesnt play OF therefore would just be a stupid replacement for Beltran

What does that have to do with anything? Say Pablo would of beaten out Victorino in the final 5 Allstar voting, that would of made one less outfielder right there. So until I was corrected my thinking couldn't of been that rediculous. Thanks by the way trainwreck

MeLLo · #31 07-10-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deftoner

Now, if irony plays out the way it should, Werth will be injured in the All-Star Game, derailing any chance the Phillies had of defending their title, and Charlie Manuel will be criticized by the media and fans for his decision to play Werth and wil be fired. Can't wait.

Werth is overrated - that's what i was saying earlier

Werth getting hurt in the All-Star Game hardly would de-rail the Phillies chances of repeating. I'm convinced John Mayberry Jr. could step in just fine for him & they could call up Michael Taylor a little early and platoon those guys or trade for someone like Spilborghes.

But yeah, Werth is overrated by Phillies fans for some reason, I can't figure out why they love him so much here

The team didn't even think he could play everyday last year so they brought in shitty Geoff Jenkins to platoon with him

He kills left-handed pitching, he's hitting .244 against righties. Is he an everyday player...yes. Is he a "good" player...yes. Is he a great player or an all-star calibur palyer...probably not.

LivinginNegadelphia · #32 07-10-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeLLo

Werth is overrated - that's what i was saying earlier

Werth getting hurt in the All-Star Game hardly would de-rail the Phillies chances of repeating. I'm convinced John Mayberry Jr. could step in just fine for him & they could call up Michael Taylor a little early and platoon those guys or trade for someone like Spilborghes.

But yeah, Werth is overrated by Phillies fans for some reason, I can't figure out why they love him so much here

The team didn't even think he could play everyday last year so they brought in shitty Geoff Jenkins to platoon with him

He kills left-handed pitching, he's hitting .244 against righties. Is he an everyday player...yes. Is he a "good" player...yes. Is he a great player or an all-star calibur palyer...probably not.

His stats speak differently. He is an All-Star player with the numbers he put up. Is he frustrating because of his cold and hot streaks? Most definitely, but to say he's overrated is ludicris. Go look at how many people are willing to trade Werth and more for Halladay. That's not overrated. Werth also has more homeruns against righties than lefties.

John Mayberry Jr. sucks. What has he done while he's been up. He's had four good swings in 45 at-bats with two walks and 18 strikeouts. He's not a ML-caliber starter. He's barely a ML player at all. There's a reason Texas gave him up for our trash.

MeLLo · #33 07-10-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivinginNegadelphia

His stats speak differently. He is an All-Star player with the numbers he put up. Is he frustrating because of his cold and hot streaks? Most definitely, but to say he's overrated is ludicris. Go look at how many people are willing to trade Werth and more for Halladay. That's not overrated. Werth also has more homeruns against righties than lefties.

John Mayberry Jr. sucks. What has he done while he's been up. He's had four good swings in 45 at-bats with two walks and 18 strikeouts. He's not a ML-caliber starter. He's barely a ML player at all. There's a reason Texas gave him up for our trash.

alright, clearly you're a werth lover. he's overrated - bottom line. he's not an all-star calibur player - Pujols, Utley, Wright, Hanley, Mauer, Lincecum, Santana, ect - those are all-star players, superstars - Werth is not an elite player, he's not in the same class as the Superstars in this league.

trainwreck · #34 07-10-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeLLo

alright, clearly you're a werth lover. he's overrated - bottom line. he's not an all-star calibur player - Pujols, Utley, Wright, Hanley, Mauer, Lincecum, Santana, ect - those are all-star players, superstars - Werth is not an elite player, he's not in the same class as the Superstars in this league.

There is a difference between superstar and All-Star.

Yeah, so he is not a superstar. He is still a good player. How the hell is he overrated? No one thinks he is in their level.

LivinginNegadelphia · #35 07-10-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeLLo

alright, clearly you're a werth lover. he's overrated - bottom line. he's not an all-star calibur player - Pujols, Utley, Wright, Hanley, Mauer, Lincecum, Santana, ect - those are all-star players, superstars - Werth is not an elite player, he's not in the same class as the Superstars in this league.

No, you can't have an intelligent conversation about players or teams that you despise. To call Werth overrated is incredibly dumb. Nobody even mentioned Mauer, Utley, or Santana. Jayson Werth is an all-star caliber outfielder. The only problem I would have with this selection is that Sandoval was not selected. Werth has as good, if not better stats than Kemp.

We're talking about a guy with .268/.373/.522 20HRs, 12 steals, and 54 RBI. Those stats projected over the entire season are better than Grady Sizemore's best season. Those numbers will be better than Carlos Beltran's.

Overrated my fucking ass. I guess you should expect this out of a Yankee fan.

MeLLo · #36 07-10-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainwreck

There is a difference between superstar and All-Star.

Yeah, so he is not a superstar. He is still a good player. How the hell is he overrated? No one thinks he is in their level.

not saying living, although he's clearly on his dick, but there are plenty of people in philadelphia that think jayson werth is a superstar. just listen to sports talk radio here - granted it's less than 1% of the fan population that calls in and voices their opinion, but IMO if you ask the majority of phillies fans they believe werth is a superstar player.

Nowayout10 · #37 07-10-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeLLo

not saying living, although he's clearly on his dick, but there are plenty of people in philadelphia that think jayson werth is a superstar. just listen to sports talk radio here - granted it's less than 1% of the fan population that calls in and voices their opinion, but IMO if you ask the majority of phillies fans they believe werth is a superstar player.

I don't think Werth is overrated or underrated. I just wouldn't hesitate to package him up in a deal for an elite pitcher. I feel the same way about Werth as I do Victorino. Both are good players but in no way should be considered indispensable.

.

MeLLo · #38 07-10-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivinginNegadelphia

Jayson Werth is a 5 tool player who's going to post better stats than Grady Sizemore's best season

So you'd rather have Werth? You just said he's going to have a better season statistically than Sizemore has ever had?

LivinginNegadelphia · #39 07-10-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeLLo

So you'd rather have Werth? You just said he's going to have a better season statistically than Sizemore has ever had?

Here's the comparison:

2008 Grady Sizemore: .268/.374/.502/33 HR/90 RBI/38SB in 640 at-bats

2009 Jayson Werth (Projected): .269/.373/.525/39HR/109 RBI/23 SB in 587 at-bats

The Werth projected stats come directly from ESPN.com. Now, if I were a GM on a random team, I would prefer to have Sizemore because he's younger and does not have the history of injuries that Werth has--even though Grady is injured this year. If I were Amaro, I would rather have Werth as he is a power righty bat with BETTER stats than Sizemore.

I love owning you. I can't wait for your witty comebacks. My guess is penis will be used this time.

MeLLo · #40 07-10-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivinginNegadelphia

Here's the comparison:

2008 Grady Sizemore: .268/.374/.502/33 HR/90 RBI/38SB in 640 at-bats

2009 Jayson Werth (Projected): .269/.373/.525/39HR/109 RBI/23 SB in 587 at-bats

The Werth projected stats come directly from ESPN.com. Now, if I were a GM on a random team, I would prefer to have Sizemore because he's younger and does not have the history of injuries that Werth has--even though Grady is injured this year. If I were Amaro, I would rather have Werth as he is a power righty bat with BETTER stats than Sizemore.

I love owning you. I can't wait for your witty comebacks. My guess is penis will be used this time.

lol yeah you "OWNED" me there pal.

I also love how you also referred to Werth as a "5-Tool Player" with his career .260 average and all lmao

you should start a baseball blog, maybe thomastomasz would let you right for his, it would be pretty amusing